Yellowstone In the News

Latest Hot Topics from our Yellowstone Net “News and Politics” Discussion Forum

YNet Forums

Yellowstone Net Discussion Forums

Posted: November 22, 2014, 11:33 pm
The guide system was not implemented to create a monopoly for commercial outfiittters. It came about as a result of a continuing pattern of irresponsible behavior by some snowmobiles. Perhaps letting park employees ride unguided is an acknowledgement that they will be well behaved.

Statistics: Posted by kdboregon — Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:33 pm


Posted: November 22, 2014, 11:28 pm
JohnnyB wrote:
Go ahead, take that step towards the middle. It wont kill you, it might just make you a whole lot happier person.

Peace,

John


Thanks JohhnyB! The middle can be kind of lonely at times, but the view is great!

Statistics: Posted by kdboregon — Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:28 pm


Posted: November 22, 2014, 11:20 pm
JohnnyB wrote:
Among other things there is nothing in this world preventing any of you with the means from buying a high dollar elk tag and choosing not to use it.


And I guess my question would be how do you know any of us have not done that? Non-hunters could buy all the elk tags they want...it wouldn't do them any good. It is not like hunters would ever acknowledge that money might be coming from anyone but them. That is why non-hunters are hesitant to buy tags. There is no way it would ever be credited towards them. I love it when hunters suggest this. Its like, hey, pony up some money in order to validate your opinion as a conservationist but we will never recognize it anyways cause we are too busy patting ourselves on the back. The non-hunting contribution to the Pittman and Robertson Act is totally ignored. Hunters love to talk about how much money they contribute to that, yet non-hunting gun owners far outnumber hunters in this country. Oh, and I also love going to the public land rallies here where only hunters are mentioned as participants. Even though a good number of us standing there are just plain old hikers, bikers, skiers and bird-watchers. It's great. It's like the boys club...only more annoying. So I guess the part where I would want to be counted is preventing me from buying a "high" dollar elk tag.

Statistics: Posted by BigSkyNative — Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:20 pm


Posted: November 22, 2014, 8:50 pm
Johnny, I really wasn't even referring to the snowmobile issue when commenting on the park employees. I have had the fortune to come out quite a few times snowmobiling and only went into the park once because it's a lot of miles to see a few scenic features. We have ridden exclusively outside the park and other areas. I don't study it too hard but from what I understand it more about pollution and harrassing the animals than anything else. I get the impression that the envoirmentalist push has a lot to do with keeping as many people out in winter as possible. Am I wrong on this? Is this the case or just a smokescreen for the park employees to have exclusive rights to the park in winter? I would hope any winter park employees would have respect for these issues and I'm really haven't heard much about the employee winter abuse of employee priviliges. (must have missed that post)
What I really responded to was the continued stereotyping of park employees. I repeat myself when I say that every work sector has some slack employees. That is and always has been the case. No one should condemn a profession because of a few weak links. I would be responding exactly the same way if the comment was that back country guides were abusing their customers and the back country. I have never even known anyone who works for a national park, but I have been in almost every national park in the country and many on numerous times and haven't had anything but pleasant and professional experiences with park employees. Maybe I have been lucky or maybe my cup is half full instead of half empty. I've never had much respect for people that have time to whine about how everyone else does their job. Maybe they have real reasons but I get the impression they just want to b---h about someone.
I am not for anyone, being corporate, private or employees getting favored in access decisions. I guess I'm just against whiners!

Statistics: Posted by larryrainey — Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:50 pm


Posted: November 22, 2014, 7:21 pm
With all due respect Larry and IMO in any logical universe in what's supposed to be a free country low wage jobs are not an argument for bestowing privilege on a few while making, still, almost all others pay corporate interest to do what they are capable of doing on their own. The extant darn near monopoly commercial outfitters have on Yellowstone snowmobiling is IMO without question unAmerican to put it kindly.

I say commercial outfitters should get just half of available permits; what say you folks?

Statistics: Posted by JohnnyB — Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:21 pm


Posted: November 22, 2014, 7:03 pm
You all know that having family with an outfitting business I have a personal bias so in the interest of respectful discussion grant me the indulge of being your devil's advocate.

In decades past elk were "slaughtered" on one side of the fence and found refuge on the other, now they're even hunted on their own refuge along with bison. I of course agree this is kind of crazy but the park would not be here without this concession however deplorable some of you find it. Before we get to the hands off at all costs mantra arguing wolves will do a "better" job of managing numbers lets remember that wolf numbers will only be tolerated to a point As is always the case the "answers" to these "problems" lie in the middle where far to few of us are willing to tread these days.

IMO the suggestion that photography/wildlife observation contributes more to local economies and conservation than hunting in the GYE is without merit since most people come here for far more reasons than just those two.Unless folks start paying huge dollars for photography permits and camera equipment is taxed far more heavily however any cull limits or prohibitions may have to be accepted at times the Park elk hunt will not go away. I however bet you could find widespread sympathy well into the hunting community itself for a drive to ban herding and enforce penalties for roadside shooters better, not the futility of decrying the entire hunt itself.

I agree these "hunters" exercised deplorable character. With all due respect to Mr. Mangelsen's own agenda and all of you I however can't see the point of always trying to paint hunting with such a broad brush with such thin bristles when therre's absolutely no denying the fact that you'd have little fauna to photograph without the more than a century old economic efforts of American hunters. Among other things there is nothing in this world preventing any of you with the means from buying a high dollar elk tag and choosing not to use it.

Go ahead, take that step towards the middle. It wont kill you, it might just make you a whole lot happier person.

Peace,

John

Statistics: Posted by JohnnyB — Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:03 pm


Posted: November 22, 2014, 5:56 pm
One last thought. Last year, someone poached a gorgeous whitetail buck on our property. Not only was the hunting season over but the person had taken only the head and antlers (4 points on each side)...left the carcass So, the poacher wasn't after meat. They just wanted a deer mount for their wall. :x

Statistics: Posted by yellvet — Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:56 am


Posted: November 22, 2014, 4:36 pm
Yep, you're right, Steve...pretty pathetic. That wasn't hunting...that was just easy target practice for lazy hunters who didn't want to put in the time to fill their tags. Just looked at the "firing line" pix...very disturbing. But that wasn't half as bad as the number of photographers and campers who stormed our campsite last June with their big glass and camera phones just so they could get pix of the bear sow and cubs that were next to our site. Unlike the rangers who did issue citations to some of the GTNP hunters (good for them), the YNP ranger, who showed up at our site to monitor the bear situation, spent her time yacking with all the photographers rather than to control the crowd and address all the food that had been left out on the nearby picnic tables. I was so furious that I hid out in our trailer and never came out. I was afraid that I might say something that I might regret or do something worse, like bop someone with my ten-pound Canon. Because of that kind of disrespectful behavior (towards us and the bears), which continued during our stay, we went home 3 days early.

Statistics: Posted by yellvet — Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:36 am


Posted: November 22, 2014, 1:31 pm
Dave Parker wrote:
Connie wrote:With all the opposition, I don't understand why this hunt continues. Seems terribly out of place.


As ugly as it can be at times, it is part of the park as that was part of the conditions when the Rockefeller Family transferred the lands to set up the park and it was part of the act of Congress that authorized the park, the Rockefeller Family still retains the right to retract those lands if certain parts of the agreement is voided. .....


Are you suggesting that the Rockefeller Foundation is and was promoting hunting in the Grand Tetons?

Statistics: Posted by Biff — Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:31 am


Posted: November 22, 2014, 3:53 am
Elk-Herding Hunters Rack Up Citations

A coordinated elk drive that led to an on-road firing line organized by Grand Teton National Park hunters Wednesday ended up resulting in six citations.

The midmorning event, which left onlookers aghast, was started when a person flushed a herd of about a 100 animals out of a no-hunting area near Kelly, eyewitnesses said. Two spike bulls were illegally killed, hunters were lined up on and were shooting from roads, and park rangers were tied up for at least an hour in the aftermath, spokeswoman Jackie Skaggs said.

More:
http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/jackson_hole_daily/local/elk-herding-hunters-rack-up-citations/article_0a87994c-52ad-5efd-88ab-fd1ffecb6948.html

Statistics: Posted by Connie — Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:53 pm


Posted: November 21, 2014, 10:59 pm
It's official...


DNA tests released today confirm that a wolf repeatedly photographed at the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park is a female gray wolf originating from the northern Rocky Mountains


http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news ... -2014.html

Statistics: Posted by rwarrin — Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:59 pm


Posted: November 21, 2014, 8:16 pm
These are the jobs they chose for many different reasons. Obviously salary is not one of them. Try to replace all the people with low paying jobs with employees that satisfy all of the "job hawks". (people that think everybody works for them because they pay taxes) and you will not even be able to touch the quality of employee with the NPS has now. Yes, there are some who probably need to be replaced, just like there are in every workplace but as whole they do their job just as you and I do.

Statistics: Posted by larryrainey — Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:16 pm


Posted: November 21, 2014, 4:35 pm
All jobs have some perks, but this seems hypocritical. I remember the theatrics around those poor Park Rangers and their respirators in West Yellowstone.

As for low paying jobs, it was their choice, they can live with it or get a real job.

Statistics: Posted by zeaper2 — Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:35 am


Posted: November 21, 2014, 5:23 am
Your right. It's called working there for low wages. Doesn't your job comes with any perks?

Statistics: Posted by larryrainey — Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:23 pm


Posted: November 21, 2014, 2:17 am
Connie wrote:
With all the opposition, I don't understand why this hunt continues. Seems terribly out of place.


As ugly as it can be at times, it is part of the park as that was part of the conditions when the Rockefeller Family transferred the lands to set up the park and it was part of the act of Congress that authorized the park, the Rockefeller Family still retains the right to retract those lands if certain parts of the agreement is voided. There could be some real ramifications if they did away with the hunt altogether and not good ones. There are lots of little tricky things that go along with the establishment of Grand Teton, including stuff that happens on the Elk Refuge and the Parkway, it was actually a pretty complicated process that established this area.

I have read a lot of how this area came about and it is quite amazing, how many little nuances there are in some of those agreements.

Statistics: Posted by Dave Parker — Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:17 pm


Comments are closed.