Another Reason not to Hunt Grizzlies?

Post and read news about Yellowstone.

Moderators: Bruce, DPS

Post Reply
billandkaren
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:50 pm

Another Reason not to Hunt Grizzlies?

Post by billandkaren » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:07 am

I believe there may be another consequence of hunting grizzlies that no one has mentioned, at least in the articles I have read on the subject. Bears, and particularly grizzlies are very intelligent animals. They have "learned" over the past 44 years that humans in general are not a threat, especially those in and around the parks. Once we start shooting at them, it may not take too long for them to "learn" that humans are indeed a threat. It is just a theory, but I think quite plausible, that over time there will be more predatory attacks on humans, especially hikers, as the bears may see us as kill or be killed.

As someone who enjoys getting out on the trails not only in the parks, but in the national forests as well, I am concerned that this may be an additional consequence of the hunt. I understand that grizzles have their own individual traits and personalities and that hiking in bear country always carries a risk. But again, as intelligent as grizzlies are, I believe just as they have learned in most cases to tolerate our presence, they are capable of of gradually changing their attitudes and reactions to be even more aggressive to humans once we start shooting at them.

I realize this is speculation but what do you think? Is this another reason to stop the hunt???

Bill



mdtrot
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Another Reason not to Hunt Grizzlies?

Post by mdtrot » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:20 am

I'd say that's a reasonable question to ask. And to go even a bit farther, are they intelligent enough to be cognizant of when and where they need to be afraid of humans? IOW, are they smart enough to learn that when they are in YNP, humans are not a threat, but when they stray outside the park, humans are a threat? If so, might their attitude towards humans vary depending on their location?



billandkaren
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:50 pm

Re: Another Reason not to Hunt Grizzlies?

Post by billandkaren » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:04 pm

mdtrot wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:20 am
I'd say that's a reasonable question to ask. And to go even a bit farther, are they intelligent enough to be cognizant of when and where they need to be afraid of humans? IOW, are they smart enough to learn that when they are in YNP, humans are not a threat, but when they stray outside the park, humans are a threat? If so, might their attitude towards humans vary depending on their location?
Yes, I think it is a possibility. I've noticed how black bears in the national forests behave much differently than those in the park.

My wife also pointed out it may have the opposite effect. That the bears may avoid humans more and there might be fewer attacks. I guess we just don't know what the consequences will be if hunting begins again. I hope we don't have to find out.



pugman170
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:35 pm

Re: Another Reason not to Hunt Grizzlies?

Post by pugman170 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:10 am

Here is my 2 cents... Lets just hope and pray the grizzly hunt is stopped and they are put back on the Endangered Species List, and the hunts are cancelled, that would be a good thing. What were to happen if the hunts were allowed to go on as planned and a hunter shoots a Grizzly bear, and for whatever reason when they approach the bear thinking it's dead or it runs out of sight the bear or another bear mauls the hunter? Do we now hold the hunter at fault? Or do we have to kill more bears because they are characterized as predators who only want to kill people.... only giving the states of Wyoming, Montana, Idaho more ammunition to take more bears out. I have been doing a lot of research and have found a lot of concern out there about the state of Wyoming miss managing the Grizzly. There is speculation the the managers for the bear are moving boundary lines specific zones to keep Grizzly death toll numbers low, and from being counted in a specific way. Example... if a grizzly is killed because it was run over by a car, it would be counted. If a bear was shot by a rancher, some of whom are re-Pete offenders.... or poached by someone... those bears go as under investigation and may not be counted because it was outside of a recovery zone. Doing so keeps legitimate Grizzly counts low and in the except-able range for the state giving them more ammunition to say the bear numbers are stable and can be hunted. People have been following this trend and have come up with their own Grizzly count. The state of Wyoming say there are about 700 + / - Grizzly bears in the Greater Yellowstone area. People following the trend in the grizzly bear counts, come up with fewer than 500 bears if counted the right way, making the state managers look bad, and maybe mismanaging the Grizzly. I don't know how accurate this information is, but if it has some truth to it I find it ti be very disterbing.... The Grizzly bear is here for all of America to enjoy, NOT just a chosen few to hunt and make a rug out of. For all of you manly men out there, if you need to kill a Grizzly , go to Alaska where it is legal to do so, and hunt far away from any road system like you pretend to do and leave the lower 48 Grizzly bears alone....



User avatar
BeartoothTucker
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Another Reason not to Hunt Grizzlies?

Post by BeartoothTucker » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:56 pm

[/quote]
My wife also pointed out it may have the opposite effect. That the bears may avoid humans more and there might be fewer attacks. I guess we just don't know what the consequences will be if hunting begins again. I hope we don't have to find out.
[/quote]

Based on all the other bears in the world where they are hunted. Your wife is correct.

I personally don't see a reason to open the GYE bears up to a hunt, but properly managed it won't be a problem. Some of the same fear mongering was done when wolves were opened to hunting and it has had little effect on the wolves.

I have never understood hunting something simply for a trophy, but I have also never understood any groups claim of use on resources that are technically for everyone.



yellvet
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:54 pm

Re: Another Reason not to Hunt Grizzlies?

Post by yellvet » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:41 pm

Bill, based on my own knowledge and personal experience with bears, I personally believe that most bears follow and act on their own base inner "bear" instincts rather than on smarts. When they're hungry, they'll search for food and eat. When they're going through the bear's annual life stage called hyperfagia, before they go into winter hibernation, they'll eat non-stop. A mother bear with cubs will also do whatever is necessary to protect her cubs, just like the instinct of any mother. So I really don't think that having a bear hunt is going to change bear behavior. The only thing that you can really count on, is the unpredictable nature of bear behavior. And it doesn't matter how many times you may have seen or photographed bears or even the same bear.

I have never been in favor of bear hunts. Why? Because there are far too many hunting amateurs who wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a large cinnamon black bear and a grizzly bear. I also wouldn't trust hunters to remember to check for any cubs in the area before they fired a shot. The planned hunt expressly prohibits the killing of a grizzly sow with cubs. Quite often, though, bear cubs are out exploring and are not close to their mothers. So, I think that the grizzly bear hunt could very well result in an increased number of female grizzly sows being mistakeningly shot and killed. And without having female grizzlies to reproduce, that could very well negatively affect and decrease the grizzly bear population for years to come. I'm ecstatic that MT isn't going to have a grizzly bear hunt this year. At least, it will give our state a chance to see how well the hunt goes in ID and WY before it OK's a hunt here.

BTW, I just read that Glacier has made some campground changes due to the increased level of grizzly bear activity. Looks like several grizzlies have been spotted moving from the mountains in NW Montana down to the prairie areas to the east. Just thought you might like to know. Lastly, I want to applaud Tom Mangelson, one of Wyoming's top wildlife photographers, for his opposition to the trophy grizzly bear hunt. He had one of the top winning lottery tickets for the trophy hunt and paid $600 for his hunting permit. But he's going to shoot a bear with his camera and NOT with a gun.....WAY TO GO, TOM!!



Post Reply